High minded stupidity of the deepest and most obstinate kind

A bit of a conversation on my post on Illogical Negativism. The brutal gormlessness of these people is a trial. PDT must be astonished to see such idiots at every turn, supposedly on his own side who buy the left-agenda cover to cover and who cannot be taught how to do battle. My central point was in dealing with the Washington Post and CNN, “they are liars who count on the complicity and ignorance of others”. This was my conversation online with “Marcus”. He goes first.

Marcus
#2551682, posted on November 13, 2017 at 6:58 pm (Edit)

Yeah…

Look, it’s possible that this is all part of a co-ordinated smear campaign to destroy an up-until-now obscure Republican Senate hopeful. Stranger things have no doubt happened.

But what you also hear in this case is people defending Moore by saying that even if it’s true, no biggie. The Bible says this! The Democrats did that! Seriously, if the best defence of Moore is “If Bill Clinton can get away with rape, so should one of ours” then maybe he’s not worth defending.

If it is a false smear campaign, that will no doubt come out in the coming days. But when people ask why these alleged victims are only waiting until now to come forward, maybe they haven’t been paying attention to what else has been going on recently. Women have waited decades to come forward against Harvey Weinstein. Men have waited decades to come forward against Kevin Spacey. Obviously, the feeling out there is that the time for victims of old crimes to forward is right now, and while that doesn’t mean that every accusation is going to be true, the fact that Moore is supposedly “one of us” doesn’t mean that they’re going to be false either.

So I replied below. Ignorant as the day is long to describe Roy Moore as “an up-until-now obscure Republican” means every bit of this is new to him but is totally unperturbed by his lack of any historical context. But I stuck to the main point, why do you accept the word of your ideological enemy?

Steve Kates
#2551738, posted on November 13, 2017 at 8:22 pm (Edit)

Look, it’s possible that this is all part of a co-ordinated smear campaign to destroy an up-until-now obscure Republican Senate hopeful. Stranger things have no doubt happened.

There would be nothing strange about that at all given how stupid the stupid party is. Everything under the sun is possible, but as David Hume pointed out, which is more plausible, that this event stayed quiet for 38 years and all the events are correctly remembered, or that the woman and her mother have lied to help the Democrats steal a Senate seat? On the other hand, how much press is there about this story: DEMOCRAT Sen. Robert Menendez may have had sex with underage hookers in Dominican Republic: prosecutors. Here there is no end of evidence but with no surprise at all, none of this makes the press, even though his trial is going on right now and the events were only a year or two back. And even where it is reported, how often do you see the party in question named? The issue is not the right or wrongs of what he did, which I would not defend, but whether he did any of it and this is just political lying of the most common garden variety.

Obstinate as well as clueless, back he comes.

Marcus
#2552285, posted on November 14, 2017 at 10:43 am (Edit)

There would be nothing strange about that at all given how stupid the stupid party is. Everything under the sun is possible, but as David Hume pointed out, which is more plausible, that this event stayed quiet for 38 years and all the events are correctly remembered, or that the woman and her mother have lied to help the Democrats steal a Senate seat?

Women, plural. My understanding is that there are four of them who’ve all made similar allegations, and that even some of his ex-colleagues in the DA’s office raised questions over his … uh, taste in women.

On the other hand, how much press is there about this story: DEMOCRAT Sen. Robert Menendez may have had sex with underage hookers in Dominican Republic: prosecutors. Here there is no end of evidence but with no surprise at all, none of this makes the press, even though his trial is going on right now and the events were only a year or two back. And even where it is reported, how often do you see the party in question named?

If that’s true Menendez should be hung out to dry. If your main point is that there’s a double standard in how these things are reported, well, of course I agree with you on that. That doesn’t mean that when these allegations are made against Republicans they’re not newsworthy.

What it does mean is that conservatives should do what they can to ensure people like Menendez face the level of scrutiny they deserve, without risking their integrity to defend people like Moore by coming up with lame justifications for his alleged behaviour (as in the case of the state auditor who used Mary and Joseph to explain why paedophilia is perfectly okay).

The issue is not the right or wrongs of what he did, which I would not defend, but whether he did any of it and this is just political lying of the most common garden variety.

Well, none of us knows the truth about Moore at the end of the day. Maybe he’s guilty, or maybe he’s the victim of a baseless political smear. All I’ll say is that it disturbs me how readily some people will try to defend the indefensible when it suits their side’s political ends. We saw the Democrats sell their souls to protect the Clintons over the last couple of decades, merely to preserve their political power, and now that they’ve lost even that, they’re left with nothing. I’d hate to see the same thing happen to the Republicans, or the right more generally.

My last go, not attempting to get him to see the point, which he never will, but just because you really want to say what an ah and fw he is. This is what I wrote instead.

Steve Kates
#2552419, posted on November 14, 2017 at 12:35 pm (Edit)

Ah Marcus. Such high mindedness! Such honourable intentions! You fight with the tactics you know will work and if the other side knows you are vulnerable to being taken down by fabricated ancient stories from unreliable sources promoted by your enemies, that is what you will see. It is the political equivalent of an IED. To give yourself a bit of credibility here, what you need to do is preface your remarks with something along the lines of,

“Donald Trump is the best thing that has happened in American politics in more than a generation and I would do anything I could to help him achieve his agenda, but this business with Moore is a step too far since even the slightest possibility that he may have done what this girl says he did 38 years ago is beyond the pale and I prefer to see a Democrat take the safest of Republican Senate seats and help sink Trump’s agenda if this is even remotely true”.

Naturally, you would have to completely discount the possibility that they are lying, or even that they don’t quite remember exactly all the details of an event that took place almost four decades ago, and assume that she has no political agenda or wishes to assist the Democrats with their own political agenda. And as for Menendez, or Bill Clinton, or The Lolita Express, yes we are against them too, but in the meantime we must not sully our side with even a hint of any of this even if the probability is close to nil that although none of it can be verified, it is actually an accurate account of what happened almost forty years ago.

If there’s more, I will let you know. The suggested preface will naturally never appear.

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